Foreign Discussion on Novasolan Denouncement

[Nathan]

posted by HRM Charles II

Your Majesty Nathan, Natopian friends,

I would for my part apologize for not approaching you earlier on this matter. The lack of such communication I can assure you was not done as a snub to Natopia or to our relationship.

First and foremost the relationship between our two nations extends from before and above the Novasolum Treaty. The issue at the time of the initial discussions around a new map was whether or not it would work out, how it would be built. At no time was Natopia not considered to join or come over if it so chose. And I would ask you to reconsider your proposed course here.

Its hard to ignore in your proposal that you dug up a lot of other issues to add to the strength of your withdrawl. I can only address the issue of the map. I know this is fairly uncommon in micronations, but I urge you to come to the table with myself. I will bring Anthelia and Alexandria and we can work out these issues one way or the other.

I urge you and Natopia to reconsider your withdrawl. I for one appreciate and respect Natopia's choice to pursue whatever simulationist agenda it wishes and would hope our friendship and relationship as a whole transcends the MCS map alone. Every other issue we have ever had prior has been worked out, let's do it with this one as well.

Please consider it.

Regards,

August Charles II

posted by HIM Emperor Hararld

People involved were bound a pledge to keep the GSO secret until its launch. Only people authorized by the GSO Board were allowed to invite someone. Furthermore, not everybody was involved from the beginning. I was, for example, invited when the GSO already existed for a couple of months. Natopia should have been invited around the same time.

[Nathan]

Response to HRM Charles:

We really do not wish to be involved with Novasolum at all anymore, nor with the Republic of Anthelia specifically. I'm sure you will find similar sentiments in Alexandria.

We will take your remarks under consideration when the Frenzy reviews our bilateral treaty.

Response to HIM Harald:

The GSO not properly inviting us is of lesser concern to Natopia than our supposed Novasolan allies not bothering to properly inform us of a very important matter involving the very thing that bound us together, the status of our territory.

[Liam Sinclair]

Nathan, it's not the fault of Gotzborg, Anthelia, Alexandria, or Paulovia that Natopia has never really taken its membership in Novasolum seriously. Honestly, even with your withdrawl from the treaty, it'll be nothing more that the norm as we in the other Novasolum micronations barely ever heard from Natopia. You guys always seemed to be more isolationist that most from what I've observed. I'm sure that you'll survive all the same as, really, Novasolum wasn't benefiting Natopia because you guys only wanted the benefit of being a member of the community, not actually the responsibility of contributing to its development as the four other micronations have.

Also, if you go to Alexandria and see the sentiments of one person, you'll also notice a reply from me which discredits every argument that person has made for wanting out of Novasolum. Alexandria's population is very much in support of continued participation in Novasolum. It's unfortunate that you decided to try to use your friends in another nation to do something contrary to the good of that nation just so you could have your revenge.

[Liam Sinclair]

PS. Just so that it is clear, that is my personal opinion on the situation from what I've seen in my work as one of the community's journalists, and as a general lurker around Novasolum boards. I felt that you deserved my honest opinion on the situation Nathan given your time in the hobby.

As the vote is overwhelmingly in favour of leaving Novasolum, I wish you all the best.

[FCM]

by the way this is just my personal opinion.... get fucked

[Nathan]

You are right Liam. Novasolum never did us any good. So thats the real reason we're leaving. We were like Britain... aloof from continental affairs. Since we're so isolationist, why would we care... whether or not the rest of Novasolum cares... that we're leaving. We're leaving because we have a good excuse to now. Ever since Novasolum came down on Natopia for offering aid to Alexandria in the CircumRaynor War we've regreted the self-imposed shackled of the Novasolum Treaty.

Revenge? Think of this as a Novasolum Day gift from us to you all. You are finally rid of Natopia... we never cared enough anyway. The dead weight that is Natopia is gone!


The Alexandrian sentiments I was refering to were those of my friend Emperor Edgard.

[gotzborg]

Ok Nate, sorry about that mate.

So just to clarify our relationship, are we never going to speak to each other again like a broken up high school couple, or are we just going to say all is well and maintain a cold quiet relationship, or get over this and go back to just being friends between nations? ;D

I prefer the last one, but with any unresolved issue tainted with emotion and bitterness, the first two tend to be more likely. I would rather not have that between us.

ACII

[gotzborg]

And sorry about posting in the Frenzy, I thought I could with the Baronetcy and the Treaty. Apologies.

[Z]

Mr. Sinclair I would advise you (along with our esteemed chancellor) to rethink your attitude, perhaps taking a more diplomatic persona for your offering of unwanted and unnecessary criticism. Personally I don't give a flying fuck what you think about Natopia or our foreign policy however I do care that you wish to come here and talk to down to me and my fellows.

It's unfortunate that you decided to try to use your friends in another nation to do something contrary to the good of that nation just so you could have your revenge.

As to this “revenge” I don’t know what your talking about but before you start throwing such harsh claims around I would ask that you take a look around you and evaluate your audience. Now that you’ve come to the conclusion that patriotic Natopians don’t like being lectured like children by pompous assholes I think we can both establish that if you had any actual objective, besides getting me pissed off, you should probably take a more tactful approach to convincing us of what ever the hell it is you came here to talk about.

[Tasneem]

So... really... where's our formal invite?

[koen]

Doing the tour of the Novasolan micronations, while you can still call them that. First let me say that I here in no official capacity as I have none anymore in Anthelia nor in any other micronations relevant to this discussion.

I only speak as citizen, as Novasolan and as President of the (private) Society for the Integration of Novasolum.

a) about the 10 year-binding after the first year. I already explained this in Alexandria, but it's an unintentional drafting error. The provision from an ILO-convention which inspired me, stated 10 years and I meant to change it in one (1) year. Seemingly I overlooked that one number. We all agree that 10 years is a ridiculously long period in micronationalism.

b) about Anthelia dominating Novasolum and the Novasolum Treaty being an imperialistic tool:

this all sounds much like the rhetoric used vis a vis the VUAS-Treaty, which was much more invasive in sovereignty than the Novasolum Treaty is and can ever be.

In my opinion Anthelia does not dominate Novasolum. If there is one leading nation (and that's a good thing) it's Gotzborg. Just look at the economic activity in that micronation, which followed the signing of the Novasolum Treaty. It is not because an Anthelian (id est I, Koen) drafted the treaty, that I, as minister of foreign affairs, took the initiative for a Novasolum Treaty and that Anthelia acts as depositary for the Treaty, that Anthelia dominates the whole thing. Just think about Novapol, that other Novasolan convention. Gotzborg takes charge of all repsonsibilities in that case. Anthelia never made appearances to monopolize Novapol.

That Natopia chose to support Alexandria in the Circum-Raynor is a sovereign choice and all other Novasolan micronations accepted it. Afterall, we did'nt *invade* Natopia to impose our will. It is however, also a sovereign right of those micronations to protest and refer to the Novasolum Treaty, as that Treaty does indeed provide that prior concertation is in order, not to impose a foreign policy, but just to make sure Novasolum can make a hard stance as a whole, as one block. What would Europe have been able to do in the Israel-Lebanon matter if it had not spoken with one voice?
Note that prior concertation as described in the Novasolum Treaty can indeed be found in the European Union Treaty and is considered the weakest form of cooperation in the European Union. Claiming that that is a serious impediment on your sovereignty is not backed by macronational reality.

If not for some sort of cooperation in matters of foreign affairs, the Novasolum Treaty provides for:
- a reciprocal non-agression clause which you find in every micronational treaty of recognition
- a list of fundamental human rights which you find in almost every micronational Constitution
- a very loose possiibility to cooperate in policing matters, which has lead to the creation of Novapol

Tell me how you consider all this imperialistic?

c) As for the issue of Space Agency stuff and the like, this has nothing to do with the Treaty as such but with the tendency of Gotzborg, Paulovia, Anthelia and in a lesser degree Alexandria to try to create interactive economies. G, P and A have more or less agreed to produce items from a same timeframe, i.e. beginning of the 20th century. Of course, spacefaring was not an issue then, at least not for human kind. It's a problem, but perhaps it can be worked out without having to blow bridges. Nathan, your idea to start a company which produces items from beginning 20th century was/is a good idea for Natopian economy and I was planning on contacting you to "produce" stuff for Anthelia Automotive...it just prooves that with own initiative, you can make Novasolum (as a concept) work to your benefit.

d) Let me end with what Emperor Nathan I himself said to Anthelia Quarterly (issue nr.2) as a response to the question: "Natopia has signed the Novasolum Treaty Still, Natopia is more to be considered a following than a leading micronation in the Novasolan movement. How do you explain this?"

I am fully aware that Natopia has been following the others in terms of participation and indeed, enthusiasm. However, I am very glad Natopia was initially involved with the creation of the treaty and the subsequent standardization of continental geography. As for the explanation, it is unfortunate that no other Natopian than myself has shown special interest in this endeavour. I would like to, now that our Kingdom Library is up and running better than ever before, perhaps host a conference on literature and the arts in Natopia so that Novasolan art and literature may be exchanged and encouraged.

It's a pitty that in a timeframe of one year opinions can change so drastically and that the *simulated* difference Anthelian-Natopian or whatever can lead to such hateful feelings. I understand the palestinian conflict better than ever...so, to conclude, you always learn something from micronationalism.

Cheers,

[koen]

ps. and biffo, I don't visit the natopian forums that often, but every time you get involved it is with words like *fuck*and the like. I call that concerning...unless you are an Italian, because I once sat next to an Italian on a plane and he said "fuck" about 7 times in 2 minutes. It is a general stereotype that Italians swear alot. For those who follow soccer/football: there was a good reason why Zidane gave a header to his Italian adversary...vulgar language

[FCM]

why do u find it concerning that i swear alot? sure its not politic but its just my manner of speech

oh and btw zidane headbutted the guy because he called zidanes mum an algerian whore. atleast thats wat i had heard

[Brian Capelle]

Novasolum presented itself as more useful than the United Nations. Unfortunately, that means little to nothing since the UN is more of a roadblock than anything.

We're leaving because Novasolum doesn't actually mean anything. I don't think it is actually beneficial to anyone, and word mistake or not 10 years is what the treaty says and it is therefore the law until every single member agreed to sign a new treaty to change it. It also seems to present itself as higher precedent than our treaties with individual members which should always take precedence. Unfortunately like most micronational treaties the Novasolum treaty was alot of nothing.

[koen]

I remember a time when Natopia and Sullifree signed a treaty, which made of Sullifree a Natopian protectorate. I also remember the negative reaction of many micronations in this matter and the actual threats vis-a-vis Sullifree, I believe by Babkha.

Anthelia issued a statement warning any micronation that an attack on Natopia and Sulllifree would have brought about the involvement of all Novasolum Treaty partners, under the Novasolum Treaty.

Later on the Sullifreean head of state thanked Anthelia for the support shown.

Some people have a short memory, don't they Brian?