The Future of the Regions

[Nathan]

Again... i am brought back to this question. Regions have been a part of Natopia since its reoganization as a country... yet after trimming Natopia's Regions back to two, there is little promise of the value of Region's to Natopia. simply putting Regions in charge of sending reps to the Frenzy doesnt seem enough. We need to provide a purpose for the Regions.... Right now, the imperial government has a loose leash on the Regions, this was to encourage smaller nations to merge with us as a Region. however... maybe a more structured layout of the powers of the regional and imperial government would encourage more Regional activity? if the imperial governemnt cannot make a certain law, the Regions will no longer be able to rely on the imperial government to do their governing for them.

maybe even dissolve the Frenzy and rely on the chancellor for national laws... and each Region will maintiain itself with its own Regional institutions?

with only 2 citizens in Tasneemia and 1 in Z-L it may not be a good idea to split our government in half.. which would be what would happen.

[MasterRDavis]

Was there a reason why Natopia wasn't structured around a Feudal, or Monarchial System to begin with? In this instance, it would help immensely. We could have one Soveriegn Ruler with the ability to Rule by Decree in cases where there are not enough people to perform actual Legislation... We could create Fiefdoms, Duchies, whatever - out of the existing Regions, and even create one or two others... Make the Regional heads nobles or royals, and re-work the constitution to match. Just an idea... One that would likely work if we were all up to it.

[Nathan]

ive toyed with that idea several times... but abandoned it simply because there are so many royal/monarchial states out there already. if there was a way to switch to a fuedal system... which... i guess we kinda have already eh? but maintain the essensce of the government.... lindstromism (which has been lost over the years) but we must still have a grand judge or something with authority over the Sovereign.

[MasterRDavis]

Well...we can create in the Sovereign (YOU) the ability to Rule by Decree. But make it so that the Decree can be challenged by the Grand Judge should he feel the new law goes against the constitution; or by the legislation in session should they feel it's not what they would want. If challenged, it would take such a vote to veto the new law - say 75% or better. So there are ways of ensuring a checks-and-balances system.

[Nathan]

allright... that sounds good.

did u know that the Grand Judge used to have the constitutional power to executive the Grand Chancellor if the GJ felt the GC was getting too tyrannical? if the GJ was found to have executed the GC without grounds, the Senate woiuld vote and could execute the GJ ;D everyone was held in check by fear... wow! Natopia was facsist and i didnt even realize!

so... do you think switching to a monarchy will work for Natopia? so... will the Duchies be in charge of their internal affairs... but the central government will be in charge of foreign affairs for all the duchies?

this sounds like shireroth...

[MasterRDavis]

no no...not like Shireoth.

Ok - First, let's not call it a monarchy...that's over-used. It's a system all to itself. We will take parts of various govts that we like, and meld them. Here's basically what I think we should do:

1) Re-name all of the positions. No more Grand Chancellor, Regional whatevers, etc.

2) Dont call the Regions Duchies or whatever...find a new name for them that nobody else uses.

3) The Ruler of the nation can rule by decree when the citizenship of the nation falls below a specific number (I say we place it at like 7-8 people)

4) If a decree is seen as unconstitutional by anyone, they can petition the GJ. If he agrees, he calls for a vote - need a simple majority to overturn the decree.

5) The divisions we now called Regions can have their own little leaders - we'll figure out names. But they have no rule over their division; they can enact simple decrees, so long as those decrees do NOT counter-act the constitution, or give the division powers on a national level.

[Nathan]

1. no more grand chancellor....? hmm... Natopia has been ruled by a grand chancellor since the First Reorganization...

2. some ideas, ward, vicinity, bailiwick, demesne, zone.

3. we've got 16 registered citizens right now. when that number (whatever we decide) is exceeded... will a national legislature be established? what will happen to the sovereign's power?

4. i like that idea.

5. so, they will be more like care-takers than little kings, the "regions" will be almost totally incorporated into Natopia, with little or no independence?

[MasterRDavis]

1) The job will still be there...let's just rename it. (IMHO)

2) Some good ideas

3) Going by registered citizens would obviously be a mistake, since all those people do not participate. I think we need to establish what it means to be active, and say we need so many ACTIVE citizens in order for the rule by decree thing to be removed. Once that day comes, the Sovereign still has power - he gets a vote and such, and can veto Legislation on his own authority once a full Frenzy has been conducted. So no worries about authority.

4) Glad you like the idea

5) And you are right...more like caretakers, not little kings/queens

[Nathan]

1. what would we gain by renaming the office? sorry if im a little reluctant... but if we are going to radically change everything, id like the main office to remain, if just for traditional and cultural reasons.

2. i like bailiwick... its a nifty little word (could u tell i used a thesaurus? lol)

3. obviusly right now we have 3 active citizens (4 once Z gets his internet back). 7 is a good number for active citizens i think. will the Frenzy remain... but just with the power to overturn decrees... even with active citizenry below 7?

5. will the "Regions" be all uniform in their governments?

[Tasneem]

I liked fascist Natopia... and don't give up on the grand chancellor title cause that's cool.

[Nathan]

right on neem... it was fun when we could kill people... perhaps we can amend the "the government shall not limit or with hold the right to ... life... " out of the constitution and bring back the good ol' days??

i agree with neem, im going to put my foot down with the Chancellor-thing... it is too ingrained in our tradition. if you're worried that the term chancellor wont relate to what the sovereign will be doing, that can be fixed by having the sovereign remain as president of the frenzy.... coz thats what a real chancellor does in some nations (i think)

[Tasneem]

Ah, it was just too much fun, especially when I tell my little brother that I have the power to unexecute him.

[Nathan]

thinking out loud:

if we go with bailiwicks... the regional leaders will be bailiffs.

if we go with demesne... the regional leaders will be lords

the dictionary's definition of "dependency" seems to me to be exactly what we want a region to be: A territory under the jurisdiction of a state of which it does not form an integral part.

if we have dependencies... that is used by others tho... what would the regional leaders be?

[MasterRDavis]

I really dont have any feelings one way or the other about you keeping your precious title. I am merely presenting ideas, and getting it all out on the table. So far as HOW this works, that's not really up to me...it's up to EVERYONE.

[Nathan]

yes, and ive liked all the ideas, i just want to keep the title. thats all... we can be a communist dicatorship if we want... just let me keep the title

now, i say the legislative frenzy remain in session, and that all citizens be granted a seat on it... or rather... all active citizens. do we allow the frenzy to continue to pass laws... say... "on authority of the chancellor" like how parliaments pass laws in the name of the Crown or whatever? do we need to define an active citizen in the constitution?